www.sdpathram.com

in Search

Independent churches are not Biblical ?

Last post 07-17-2008, 6:01 AM by Anonymous. 13 replies.
Sort Posts: Previous Next
  •  06-26-2008, 5:35 AM 3546

    Independent churches are not Biblical ?

     

    Mushrooming of churches is a problem in the pentecostal community that need to be addressed.

     Our energy and resources are dissipated. I believe independent churches are not Biblical. The congregational

     system of church administration is not mentioned anywhere in the Bible.

    Is it Biblical that a committee to hire and rule over the pastor who is supposed to be the shepherd of the church. We need

    positions above the pastor like apostles to direct the pastor. Because of these weaknessess and lack of a strong

    central organisation and administration, our efforts are not effetive. First we need to have the discipline to stay put

    under authority. We don't want to accept anybody above our church as an apostle. We bend and interpret verses

    to suit our need or selfish motives. Any strong organisation has an administration and a heirarchy of positions.

     We are not disciplined enough to allow that. If we don't have a strong organisation and the job security that offers

     to pastors and evangelists, our children and best talents will not come forward to become a pastor or evangelist

     God has given us intelligence and common sense. Are we incapable of using it? We all want independent churches

    so that we don't have to listen toanybody. It is understandable that in the initial stages a organisation is independent

    as the work is strted according to a vision. But to stay independent for ever is not Biblical. The thirumeni of Marthoma

    church once said, We are afraid to stay independent as chances of making mistakes are high and there is nobody to

     advise or correct". Independent churches need to come together or work with a stronger organisation for a common goal.

    It is high time that we correct this problem in the Pentecostal community. We have become the source of ridicule by

     other communities due to this weakness. We can't blame the leaders fully as leaders are what the believers selected.

    When we are attacked, we are unable to stand together

    Let us discuss this and act on it.

     

     Ninan Mathullah

    Houston

  •  07-01-2008, 8:12 PM 3569 in reply to 3546

    Re: Independent churches are not Biblical ?

    I agree with brother ninan that independant churches are not a good idea. i think churches like any organisation should have accountability and churches that are independant or a person lead are a bad idea. however, i dont know if there are scriptural basis for independant or organisational churches. the new testament churches were more like gatherings than formal church organisations like we see today. however even these gatherings were given instructions on the conduct of the church. churches under the control of one person usually will fail to observe those guidelines.

    joseph

  •  07-02-2008, 8:31 AM 3573 in reply to 3546

    Re: Independent churches are not Biblical ?

    I strongly disagree with Brother Mathullah's statement that "  If we don't have a strong organisation and the job security that offers  to pastors and evangelists, our children and best talents will not come forward to become a pastor or evangelist" - what do you mean?

    is this a profession? only those called for pastorship needs to enter into that ministry. what a constrained view of the ministry- christianity is not just some bunch of malayalees and americans. there are thousands who have entered in missions, pastorship around the world, including the disciples of Christ ( who by the way, left what they had) to preach the gospel and to take care of the churches without looking at any monetary gains for themselves. God has given all of us intelligences but some people become "too intelligent" and bring in worldy principles to church forgetting what the Bible states. I am not against worldly principles and leadership styles being implemented in churches but the first test for all of it is does not contradict what the scripture states. Our children need come to ministry only if they are willing to suffer for the cause and should not ever enter into it for any job security! we have plenty of those people in kerala who became pastors for the money and the church still pays a price for it.

    Lets never forget the basic tenets of Lord's work and insult the thousands who have paid with their lives and continue to suffer for Christ without any "job security" or "organisational strength"

    Chacko Varghese.

     

  •  07-06-2008, 3:07 PM 3584 in reply to 3546

    Re: Independent churches are not Biblical ?

    As per the bblical teaching there is only one church. that's the congregation of the redeemed believrs. some call it as the universal church.Church is the body of the Christ. as they are living in many places, countries they have to gather in a convenient place. There  is the necissity of the gathering place or prayer hall comes.Nowadys we can find many prayer halls in one place with many names or hoarding.It happened because of the difference in opinion and difference in their worship pattern.But the new generation churches and so called independant churches are coming to the existence due to the self proud or unwillingnes of the leader/ founder of the new group to become a part of the established church where he may not get the due position or other name which he expects.we can find most of the pentecostal churches are with same teahings and statement of faith.Then why there should be different entity at all??There is only one church For christ. that is the body of the christ where all saints are parts.Let's worship The almighty in truth and in spirit.Lets arise and shine as the light has come.It is the end time .No time to waste by putting blame on others.The love of jesus is required to show to others by the church" means believers" .et all the believers may unitedly  do the ministry of our Lord.Lets think about united movement of the congregations in the villages as well as in the towns.

    PMV

  •  07-06-2008, 11:15 PM 3591 in reply to 3569

    Re: Independent churches are not Biblical ?

     

    but only independent churches are there in the bible.....the organisations are non biblical. 

     

  •  07-10-2008, 5:26 AM 3640 in reply to 3573

    Re: Independent churches are not Biblical ?

    Dear Chacko Varghese

     

    Please consider your opinion in the light of the article below

     

     A VISION FOR THE FUTURE

     

    Every year we see our high school graduates competing with the rest of the students here, come out in flying colors. Almost all of them want to be doctors, engineers, pharmacists or other professionals were the pay and job security is promising. Almost none of them want to be a pastor or a missionary. The reasons for this lack of interest that endangers our existence here as a well organized church and the future of missionary work that determines our rewards to come, is a lack of organization and structure for our churches. Our energy and efforts are getting dissipated. After all these years of work, the population statistics remain unchanged. We are not getting the due results for our efforts.

     

    Since most of our churches are independent, the job of the pastor has no security. They can’t put their full concentration to missionary work or their church, as they have to worry about their family and their future needs. Our children are smart to a certain extent. They clearly see the situation and don’t want to be in the mission field. As parents, we can’t encourage them to be in the mission field, as we don’t want them to be on the street with a wife and children and a mortgage payment. Some say pastors live by faith and that is why they choose to be pastors. How can we ask them to have this faith that neither we nor our children have. We have permanent jobs, pension plans and we want our pastor to live by faith. God has given us intelligence to find solution to most common problems. Are we incapable of coming up with a solution. If there is a will, there is a way out also. If we stand together we can build a strong

     

    One fundamental problem that we face here is the mushrooming churches here that dissipate our energy and resources that could have efficiently used for the evangelization of India and other countries. For any reason a church is split, the biggest losers will be the children. One of the reasons for the mushrooming of churches is the lack of job security for the pastor. It is true that they love their church, and their calling. Since we allow all of them to get married, we can’t forget the fact that their primary responsibility is to their family. We misinterpret the Bible worse, “The overseer must be husband of one wife”, as all pastors must be married.

     

    Another common complaint against pastors is that they don’t have time to concentrate on the growth of the church as they have their own ministries. This also is due to the inherent job insecurity. There is a big question mark always hanging over their heads as what is next. We need an organization and setup where pastors can concentrate their energy and potential to the work of the Lord without much worry about their job security.

     

    Yet another complaint against pastors is that they play politics in church. In a situation of uncertainty they use surviving skills to stay on. A person who is drowning financially will get hold of any straw available to escape. Once out of the waters, there is no meaning in accusing them of lack of principle as they used a straw to escape. Some say, pastor is hired for three years and that they know they have to leave after three years. In the same token why we can’t point to a particular church for them to move to and take charge.

     

    We want our best talents to come forward for the work of the Lord. Conquering nations for the Lord is a battle and to win this battle we need the best talents, plan and strategy. Mushrooming of churches has become a threat to our survival and influence here. Any pastor no matter the best, people get tired of after a few years. We need a system for continuous source of pastors for local churches. Like minded churches must come together initially to form a central organization for mission work or they need to join an existing strong organisation.

     

    Our committee and general body system of governing churches is also part of the reason for not using our full potential. The congregational system of church administration is not Biblical. By the time a committee is formed and they are functional and become aware of the need of the church, or missionary needs in the field, it is time for a new committee. We don’t have long term plan of action for growth. As you know without a plan and a strategy, nothing works. When we work with a plan and strategy in prayer, God’s hand will be with us.

     

     We are spending a lot of energy and time on hiring pastors. If pastor could be appointed it is more Biblical. Besides, independent churches to stay independent for ever, is not Biblical. “He has appointed Apostles, Prophets, and Pastors in Church. If we can’t point our fingers to these positions in our church, where is the foundation of our church? Is it because of our lack of discipline and ability to stay put under authority.

     

     Every year, many are accepting Jesus as their saviour. The first thing he or she think is which is a well organized church in the city that I and my family can attend that meet our needs. If we don’t rise to the occasion and make plans to accept these new comers, somebody else will take that position. Those who are with the church from the beginning must be proud that the church they took initiative to begin, has grown and is a source of comfort to generations to come.(This article is  personally not against anybody)

     

                                                                                                    Ninan Mathullah

  •  07-12-2008, 11:05 PM 3678 in reply to 3640

    Re: Independent churches are not Biblical ?

    dear ninan,

     please avoid essays,,,,read it yourself and try to put the summary,,,can you do it...if you need a reply

    thanks

  •  07-13-2008, 11:04 PM 3681 in reply to 3640

    Re: Independent churches are not Biblical ?

     

    As we study the Scriptures, we repeatedly find that there was a 'body of elders' who were appointed in every local church to direct its affairs. It was not an autocratic one-man show, a democratic congregation-driven set-up or even a committee-led hire and fire style of governance; it was a theocratic rule where godly leaders (known as elders, bishops or overseers) were identified, appointed and together ruled the household of God.


    A local church where one man (the pastor) runs the whole show and does all the work of the ministry is not a biblical model. This tragically being the case in many places today, the immediate endeavour of a pastor should be to raise up leaders and equip believers to function in their calling and use the gifts which the Lord has placed within them.


    It must also be highlighted here that the office of the pastor has been wrongly elevated above the other ministry gifts. While he is only one among the apostles, prophets, evangelists and teachers, today the pastor is considered as some kind of elite individual. He gets all the attention and all the money!


    The Scriptures make it clear that the church is to be built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, not on the foundation of pastors (Ephesians 2:19-20). One is therefore forced to ask, “Where are those with the apostolic grace and prophetic cutting-edge today? Why do we find only pastors everywhere?” The sad reality is that because we have emphasised only the pastoral ministry, most Bible colleges have ended up as 'pastor-producing factories'!


    God has vested tremendous authority in the local church. The local church is the final court of appeal in all vital matters: disputes between believers, matters of doctrine, and matters of moral conduct. In these days, it is especially important to remember Paul's decree that it is absolutely wrong for a believer to go to court against a fellow believer. The church is called to be a place of love and unity where believers lay down their lives for one another. And in the event of any issues arising, they should be brought before the leadership of the church and never taken to a secular court of law.

    SAM.

  •  07-14-2008, 10:07 PM 3686 in reply to 3681

    Re: Independent churches are not Biblical ?

     

    dear sam,

    do you mean the elders are the apostles ? or can you tell exactly who can be seated in an apostles office ? define quality.

    who will accept a clear prophet in the recent church ? who will acknowledge their faults and encourage him ?

    your ideas are actually the correct...but in your words can you suggest the arrangements to be made in our church to accommodate these both.

    in local church where people coming for worship and prayers; who will lead rather than a pastor ?

     according to pentecostal & bible we need a president or chairman in our gatherings ....who among will perform that ?

    kindly advice. 

     

     

     

  •  07-15-2008, 5:47 AM 3688 in reply to 3678

    Re: Independent churches are not Biblical ?

    Dear Brother,

    Sometimes, to give justice to the subject, it is necessary to write essay or even write and publish a book. If God has

    created us with free will, we make our own choice whether to read or not or to reply or not.

     Best wishes and prayers

    Ninan

  •  07-15-2008, 6:30 AM 3689 in reply to 3688

    Re: Independent churches are not Biblical ?

     

    does your great will lacks kindness to the poor..needy ?

    i think, only GOD can say " I AM WHAT I AM "

  •  07-15-2008, 6:32 AM 3690 in reply to 3681

    Re: Independent churches are not Biblical ?

    Dear Sam

    Thank you for that thought provoking notes. I fully agree  that the office of pastor has been wrongly elevated above

    other ministry gifts as is clearly stated in Romans 12: 6-8. In Old Testament times, the gift of administration was given

    to selected few as judges and Kings with special annointment. Now we are told not to go anywhere near that area. Is it

     because some of these pastors can't share the honour and respect with others in the community. If so is it not selfishness?

    In the book of Acts, when the local church couldn't decide on the issue of circumcision, they go to jerusalem to the rest

     of the Apostles and elders. Even after a great debate, they couldn't decide. Now Apostle Peter stood up and gave the

    decisive speech that all agreed to.

    I do not think God has given all the authority to the local church. When an issue is there we are told to let the church

    know it, not just the local church. It is not written to bring the issue to the pastor. it is written to bring the issue to the

     church and that church as envisaged in the Book of Acts is a church with Apostles and elders at different levels. We

    all have limitations and it is natural to make mistakes. So in the church there must be opportunity to appeal a decision.

    The pastor and committee shouldn't be the final authority to decide on a issue. Naturally the congregational system of

    church administration is not Biblical. I personally know a case where a pastor was called to decide on a domestic issue

     between a husband and wife. The pastors verdict after listening to the wife only was, "You come to our church. The husband

     will soon follow you". This pastor didn't want to loose this family to another church. I am not against pastors. I give

    the utmost respect to pastors. We all need to respect our pastors. This is only to say that we have limitations as human

     beings.

    Ninan Mathullah

    Houston

  •  07-16-2008, 10:03 PM 3701 in reply to 3690

    Re: Independent churches are not Biblical ?

    i found you are pentecost by name but not worshipping in truth and spirit
  •  07-17-2008, 6:01 AM 3707 in reply to 3701

    Re: Independent churches are not Biblical ?

    Is this statement a little judgemental?

    Ninan

Powered by Community Server (Personal Edition), by Telligent Systems